The Turtle and Elephant myth.

"When Columbus lived, people thought that the earth was flat. They believed the Atlantic Ocean to be filled with monsters large enough to devour their ships, and with fearful waterfalls over which their frail vessels would plunge to destruction". (From Myth of the Flat Earth http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth)

- But maybe there is another explanation to this "flat Earth belief" and "devouring monsters in the ocean? Can it possibly be that the ancient myths is misunderstood for some true story with a complete other meaning and Mytho-Cosmological understanding? I think this is very possible! Because it all depends of interpreting a myth and connect the right symbols and right telling to the right celestial objects.

What happens with the logics if a myth is taken for an Earthly matter and not as a celestial matter? Well, it all goes wrong and both the myth in case and the telling turns out to be completely mumbo jumbo!

- Through all the following telling there is specially this going totally wrong: Myths belonging to the Milky Way are interpreted by scholars and laymen as being connected and belonging to the Earth.

Creator Goddesses; Creator Gods and Creator Animals are all wrongly connected to the Earth - and, in the better case, connected to the Solar System and the planets, but they correctly should be connected to the Story of Creation and to the myths of the Milky Way.

When the myths are mentioning major and superior deities in combination with the Story of Creation, one has to look for its actual cosmological origin and take the telling for granted. The telling of the Turtle and Elephant is not in the first hand dealing with the Earth as such, but with the very first beginning of the Creation which is directly connected to the time even before the Milky Way Galaxy was created.

It all begins with a LIGHT that set a molecular cloud of interstellar gas and dust ("soil") in motion. When a cosmic light force hit a cosmic cloud, this cloud get electrified and magnetic/thermal swirls the cloud up in several swirling parts, each forming the beginning of a galaxy. The gas and dust elements are sorted out and heated up in these concentrating swirls.

Gas and dust are heated up and the different elements are melted together, forming larger lumps of gas that becomes Stars and larger lumps of matter/"soil" that becomes Planets of all kinds. These new formed stars and planet are gently slung out from the swirling center of the galaxy, a center that is called Eden in the Bible from where all life have origin. Observed from our Solar system this galaxy centre is located in the star constellation of Sagittarius.

- An Stone Age artifact from Denmark and a Bronze Age artifact replica from Finland, most likely both illustrating the Milky Way Galaxy and the location of our Solar System in the galaxy. The Turtle shell pattern is a very good symbol in order to illustrate both the Milky Way bulge and the concentricity of the Milky Way surroundings.

The galaxy centre is mythological also called The Primordial Mound, The World Mountain or Hill, The Enclosed Light, The First Island, The First Light etc., and they all describe the very centre bulge of the Milky Way which seen from the plane has a flat disc look with the bulge centre in the middle as seen on the picture above. All over the World ancient people have build a lot of hills symbolizing this Milky Way Central Hill and they also have told a lot of stories combined with different symbols of both animals and human beings in order to tell the Mytho-Cosmological story of origin.

The very shape of a Turtle shell and its pattern are used by several cultures to describe the bulgy center of the Milky Way with its flattish disc. - In the following, I'll comment in this font color and size between the quoted text from Wikipedia and illustrate where it goes very wrong when scholars and laymen underestimate the spiritual knowledge of our Ancestors. The conclusion can very easily turn out to be that the "flatness of the Earth" more describe the mentally flatness and ignorance of the interpreting scholars and laymen.

The World Turtle Myth

The Turtle Myth in China

In Chinese mythology the creator goddess Nüwa cut the legs off the giant sea turtle Ao (鳌) and used them to prop up the sky after Gong Gong damaged the Buzhou Mountain that had previously supported the heavens. Researchers of early Chinese mythology also note that the flat undershell and round domed upper shell of a turtle resemble the ancient Chinese idea of a flat earth and round domed sky.

My comments: How can a geographical located mountain on Earth support "the heavens"? And how can an earthly goddess "repair the Sky"? When the story tells of something going on in the Sky, the cosmological interpretation and understanding should logically focus only on something in the Sky and not on the Earth.

The story tells of the Creation even BEFORE the Earth was created! So how can the story become mixed up to such a degree? Well, this confusion and distortion of a myth happens only because modern scholars and laymen have GREAT difficulties to grasp that our Ancestors used their spiritual skills so brilliantly that they intuitively got the cosmological knowledge via spiritual journeys of-of-the-body-like travels in cosmos where The Creation itself told the cosmological stories.

Because the Milky Way Galaxy has a flat disc from where the Solar System and the Earth once was created, the scholars and laymen are unable to connect the right mythological dots to the right celestial objects and their connected cosmological facts. The Milky Way World Mountain on a flat disc, floating in Cosmos, then becomes "a mountain on an Earth which is flat", completely distorting this mythological Story of Creation.

Wikipedia: "Buzhou Mountain was an ancient Chinese mythological mountain which according to old texts lay to the northwest of the Kunlun Mountains, in a location today referred to as the Pamir Mountains. It is the mountain said to have supported the heavens, against which the Chinese water god Gong Gong smashed his head in a fit of anger, requiring the goddess Nüwa to repair the sky".

- Here we very sadly have the Milky Way Centre Mountain creation supposed by mythological scholars to be located "to the northwest of Kunlun Mountains, today referred to as the Pamir Mountains".

The Turtle Myth in India

Hindu mythology has various account of World Tortoises, besides a World Serpent (Shesha), Kurmaraja and world-elephants.

The most widespread name given to the tortoise is Kurma or Kurmaraja. The Shatapatha Brahmana identifies the earth as its lower shell, the atmosphere as its body and the vault of heaven as its upper shell. The concept of World-Tortoise and World-Elephant was conflated in popular or rhetorical references to Hindu mythology. An alleged tortoise Chukwa supporting Mount Meru.

Mount Meru Mythology

- As mentioned above the mythological mountain/mound/hill/island/first light represents the bulging centre of the Milky Way.

Bhutanese thanka of Mount Meru and the Buddhist Universe, 19th century,

Mount Meru, also called Sumeru i.e the "Great Meru") is a sacred mountain in Hindu and Buddhist cosmology as well as in Jain cosmology, and is considered to be the center of all the physical, metaphysical and spiritual universes. It is also the abode of Lord Brahma and the Demi-Gods (Devas).

The mountain is said to be 84,000 Yojanas high (which is around 672,000 miles or 1.082 million kilometers). Many famous Hindu and Jain temples have been built as symbolic representations of this mountain. The highest point (the finial bud) on the pyatthat, a Burmese-style multi-tiered roof, represents Mount Meru.

- Now: Which earthly mountain can have these proportions? Maybe the measures mentioned above is not very precise measurements of the Milky Way, but they still are "astronomically dimensions" very well fit to describe the large flat disc of our Milky Way with the Milky Way Bulge/Centre.

The photo of the Milky Way Centre over the Aboriginal holy Hill, Uluru, is a very good illustration of the World Mountain Myth. (Photo Credit: http://cfloydphotography.com/chris_floyd_photography%20LANDSCAPES.htm)

Churning the Milky Ocean

The churning of the Ocean of Milk was an elaborate process. Mount Mandaranchal (or Mount Meru) - it's mythologically the very same) was used as the dasher (churning tool), and Vasuki, the king of serpents, became the churning rope. The gods held the tail of the snake, while the demons (Asuras) held its head, and they pulled on it alternately causing the mountain to rotate, which in turn churned the ocean. However, once the mountain was placed on the ocean, it began to sink. Vishnu in his second incarnation, in the form of a turtle Kurma, came to their rescue and supported the mountain on his back.

Churning the Milky (Way) Ocean - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samudra_manthan#Churning_the_Milky_Ocean

- Mount Mandaranchal = Mount Meru is used as the churning tool i.e."this mountain is churning/turning" the "Ocean Milk". The Milky Way bulge = Mound/Hill is the churning in the middle of the Milky Way galaxy, creating all things in the Milky Way.

The dimensions attributed to Mount Meru, all the references to it being as a part of the Cosmic Ocean, along with several statements like that the Sun along with all the planets (including Earth itself) circumbulate the mountain, make determining its location most difficult, according to most scholars. However, a small handful number of western scholars have tried quite hard to identify Mount Meru or Sumeru with the Pamirs, north-east of Kashmir.

- Rightfully, this part of the Wikipedia get at least something correct here. The mythological story deals with a Mountain on a flattish disc floating in the Cosmos with the Sun along with all the Planets orbiting around the Cosmic Mountain. This Island with its - even churning - Mound/Mountain can only be the Milky Way with its hill-shaped bulge centre, around which our Solar System are orbiting.

But then the scholars completely loose their track again, stating: ". . .make determining its location most difficult". Yes, when you don't have a clue, you don't have a clue at all.

- The flattish Milky Way disc object with the Cosmic Mound in the centre, then become reduced by the scholars to "a mountain on an Earth", which, says the scholars and laymen, "accordingly to the ancient mythological telling", "is supposed to be considered flat". Dear, oh dear!

- The real flatness is located in the minds of the scholars and laymen that doesn't take the mythological telling for real cosmological knowledge.

The Turtle Myth in North America

The Lenape myth of the "Great Turtle" was first recorded between 1678 and 1680 by Jasper Danckaerts. The myth is shared by other Northeastern Woodlands tribes, notably the Iroquois.

Iroquois Creation Myth

The image above shows the main Star Atlas contours of the Milky Way as observed on the northern and southern hemisphere on a favorable night and season. With just a little imagination one can picture a man standing to the left and a woman to the right, symbolizing the Sky People living "on a Island floating in the Sky" i.e. "on the Milky Way disc as described above.

The inserted Earth In the centre between the 2 figures is marking the Earth axis pole, and the also inserted orange "sun-light" symbol marks the centre of the Milky Way, the "First Light" and "the enclosed Sun", located in the constellation of Sagittarius. The common world myths of Creation states that it is "from the womb of this Great Goddess that all life have origin". That is really: Our Solar System was once created directly out from the very centre of the Milky Way.

These Milky Way images of a man and a woman are the main cause for the Forefather Worshipping and they are of cause also the origin for the telling of Adam and Eve in the Bible.

The context also says: "In the center of the island there was a tree which gave light to the entire island since the sun hadn't been created yet", which is very similar to the biblical story with the biblical "Garden of Eden" and the Tree of Life". And since it states that the sun wasn't yet created, this telling also is dealing with the Story of Creation, very well accordingly to my comments above.

Water animals already existed on the earth, so far below the floating island two birds saw the Sky Woman fall. Just before she reached the waters they caught her on their backs and brought her to the other animals. Determined to help the woman they dove into the water to get mud from the bottom of the seas. One after another the animals tried and failed. Finally, Little Toad tried and when he reappeared his mouth was full of mud. The animals took it and spread it on the back of Big Turtle. The mud began to grow and grow and grow until it became the size of North America.

Then the woman stepped onto the land. She sprinkled dust into the air and created stars. Then she created the moon and sun.

As mentioned above: The common world myths of Creation states that it is "from the womb of this Great Goddess that all life and elements have origin". That is really: Our Solar System was once created directly out from the very centre of the Milky Way, symbolized by the Cosmic Woman. This is of course very contra dictionary to the modern scientists - but then again: Their cosmological science contains a lots of contradictions itself.

The Sky Woman gave birth to twin sons. She named one Sapling. He grew to be kind and gentle. She named the other Flint and his heart was as cold as his name. They grew quickly and began filling the earth with their creations.

Sapling created what is good. He made animals that are useful to humans. He made rivers that went two ways and into these he put fish without bones. He made plants that people could eat easily. If he was able to do all the work himself there would be no suffering.

Flint destroyed much of Sapling's work and created all that is bad. He made the rivers flow only in one direction. He put bones in fish and thorns on berry bushes. He created winter, but Sapling gave it life so that it could move to give way to Spring. He created monsters which his brother drove beneath the Earth.

Eventually Sapling and Flint decided to fight till one conquered the other. Neither was able to win at first, but finally Flint was beaten. Because he was a god Flint could not die, so he was forced to live on Big Turtle's back. Occasionally his anger is felt in the form of a volcano.

The Iroquois people hold a great respect for all animals. This is mirrored in their creation myth by the role the animals play. Without the animals' help the Sky Woman may have sunk to the bottom of the sea and earth may not have been created. Link: http://www.cs.williams.edu/~lindsey/myths/myths_12.html

- When knowing of some cosmological clues that really and beautifully support the ancient mythological stories, this telling is not at all an naive mumbo jumbo story, it is a beauty in it self! Even the telling of the Sky Woman "who may have sunk to the bottom of the sea" is very correctly:

The Sky Woman is really located on the southern hemisphere in "the Underworld" and "she", as well as "he" on the northern hemisphere, represents the Heavenly Waters of the Milky Way River. (NB: Some of the "Sky People" can ALSO possibly be connected to some Star Constellations)

The World-Elephant Myth

Classical Sanskrit literature has references to "World-Elephants" as mythical animals supporting the world in Hindu cosmology. This image augments the stock of mythological world-bearers over the earlier World Turtle (Kurmaraja) and World Serpent (Nagaraja or Shesha). Indeed, Wilhelm von Humboldt suggested that the idea of a world-elephant was due to a confusion, caused by the Sanskrit noun Nāga having the dual meaning of "serpent" and "elephant" (named for its serpent-like trunk), thus representing a corrupted account of the world-serpent. The various Hindu myths of the world being carried or enclosed by either a tortoise, a serpent or an elephant were referred to by Taylor (1878:339) In the epics and major Puranas, there "is no myth of a world-upholding elephant", and Al Biruni makes no mention of it, only quoting Brahmagupta who states "the earth is the only low thing".

- If the scholars are confused, it is because they are having great difficulties to, in the first hand with connecting the right animal symbols to the right celestial objects, and secondly they also have difficulties imaging that different cultures could have changed the older animal symbols, even that they mythological and cosmological of course meant the very same. Having these difficulties, the scholars themselves corrupts and distorts the mythological telling.

The elephants are supposed to be guarding (and supporting) the earth at the compass points of the cardinal directions, and they cause earthquakes when shaking their bodies.

The 4 Elephant that "supports the Earth" is not supporting the Earth, but the represent the 4 cardinal directions from the Solar System in the Galaxy. One have to imagine that the contours of the Milky Way seemingly revolves around the Earth axis pole, and therefore the contours can be used in order to illustrate the 4 directions. Regarding the shaking effect, this must originally have described the "the strong force that is emerging from the Milky Way centre", a kind of cosmic birth contractions when the Milky Way creation is going on.

Thus there are four, eight, or sixteen of them. The Amarakosha (5th century) lists the names of eight male elephants bearing the world (along with eight unnamed female elephants). The names listed are: Airavata, Pundarika, Vamana, Kumunda, Anjana, Pushpa-danta, Sarva-bhauma, Supratika. Four names are given in Ramayana 1.41: Viru-paksha, Maha-padma, Saumanas, Bhadra.

- I would not be surprised at all if the names mentioned here are telling some very specific information regarding the Solar System and the cardinal directions in the Milky Way.

Mahapadma also appears as the name of a treasure-guarding naga (serpent, dragon) in Harivamsa and Vishnu Purana. Brewer's Dictionary of Phrase and Fable lists Maha-pudma and Chukwa are names from a "popular rendition of a Hindu myth in which the tortoise Chukwa supports the elephant Maha-pudma, which in turn supports the world". The spelling Mahapudma originates as a misprint of Mahapadma in Sri Aurobindo's 1921 retelling of a story of the Mahabharata, Love and Death.

And again we here have several animal-symbols representing the very same Milky Way Myths.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World-elephant

The Gaja Elephant Myth

Gaja (a Sanskrit word for elephant) is one of the significant animals finding references in Hindu scriptures and Buddhist and Jain texts. In general, a gaja personifies a number of positive attributes including fertility and richness; boldness and strength; and wisdom and royalty.

"Abundance, fertility and richness; boldness and strength; and wisdom and royalty" also are qualities connected to the Great Milky Way Mother as well. Note that the elephant Gaja and the womanly Gaia is very similar, Gaia not meaning the "Mother Earth" of course, but meaning the great Milky Way Mother figure.

In European Portuguese it means "physical attractive female", its origin in the Portuguese language can be related to a personification of fertility as mentioned. The legend states that Airavata, the first elephant, emerged from the churning of the ocean. There is another mythological account, which states that Brahma created elephants.

Wikipedia: Churning the Milky Ocean

The churning of the Ocean of Milk was an elaborate process. Mount Mandaranchal was used as the dasher (churning tool), and Vasuki, the king of serpents, became the churning rope. The gods held the tail of the snake, while the demons (Asuras) held its head, and they pulled on it alternately causing the mountain to rotate, which in turn churned the ocean. However, once the mountain was placed on the ocean, it began to sink. Vishnu in his second incarnation, in the form of a turtle Kurma, came to their rescue and supported the mountain on his back.

- Which kind of earthly mount can be used as a rotation tool? Which cosmic mound is likely turning? Just like the Earth is turning, the same goes for the Milky Way which also globally is symbolized by Serpents and Snakes.

Churning of the ocean deals mythological not with any earthy waters. It deals foremost with the churning in the Milky Way Mound centre that creates the Milky Way contours that again is mythological imagined as several animals and human beings - and even as anthropomorphic beings of all kind.

The Buddhist tradition states that Buddha came into the womb of his mother in the form of an elephant having six tusks. According to Jaina tradition, each of the mother of the twenty-four thirthankars dreamt of fourteen auspicious objects, which included an elephant.

- Here we have a mix up with both the Cosmic Great Mother and the Cosmic Elephant which mythological means the very same.

In Hinduism, Ganesh, a god with the elephant’s head has been an object of reverence and worship for more than two millennia. He is therefore called as Gajanan(Gaj=elephant, aanan= faced). Several deities and mythological figures have elephants as their conveyance (vahan) including Balarama, Skanda and aiyanar.

- The southern womanly Milky Way contour, with marking of the Milky Way "Womb Centre" to the right, also imagined by humans as an Elephant.

- Some ancient images of Elephants.

An elephant is also one of several attributes of a Chakravartin, which he is expected to own to be bestowed with the title of Chakravatin, that is, the supreme and universal ruler. Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaja

Creator Goddesses; Creator Gods and Creator Animals are most always all wrongly connected to the Earth - and, in the better case, connected to the Solar System and the planets, but they correctly should be connected very specifically to the Story of Creation and to the myths of the Milky Way.

The "Flat Earth Myth" is indeed correct - if understanding it correctly. An Island of Light, surrounded of a flattish disc is indeed floating in the Cosmic Sea. This Island with its Mound/Mountain can only be the Milky Way with its hill-shaped bulge centre, which our Solar System are revolving around.

- From being a most ridiculed naive hear-saying myth, started of by people that have forgotten the real Milky Way Myth and later on by scholars that were/are unable to grasp the full Mytho-Cosmological implications, the truth strikes back and restores the stunning spiritual knowledge of our Ancestors.